Summary

  • Tonight's topic was security – would the UK be safer in or out of the EU?

  • Evan Davis was joined by Alan Johnson and Penny Mordaunt from either side of the debate

  • Find out what our panel experts and our undecided voters had to say

  • Get involved using #Newsnight

  1. What do our undecided voters think about security?published at 22:40 BST 25 April 2016

    We are welcoming back our eight undecided voters tonight. Here's what they think on security...

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    I’m concerned about what affect leaving the EU would have on the intelligence we receive. Instinctively it seems that being in a union would make sharing information easier.

    Michelle Joseph Brown, Undecided voter

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    Security is a major issue. We are in danger. We are not in control and the EU does not give us enough authority. When we negotiate with Europe, we haven’t got enough power to achieve what we want

    Shan Abizadeh, Undecided voter

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    Security isn’t the major factor in deciding how to vote in June for me. However... I want to know whether the EU would restrict what they share with us if we are not part of the EU

    Lewis Dockery, Undecided voter

  2. What can the UK can do for the Union?published at 22:39 BST 25 April 2016

    Mark Urban
    Newsnight Defence and Diplomatic Editor

    Theresa MayImage source, Getty Images

    Theresa May’s intervention highlights a key question often missing in the Brexit debate: not what the EU can do for us, but what the UK can do for the Union. The Home Secretary highlighted the new effort to get a Passenger Name Record system operating across Europe, saying, “without British leadership and influence, a directive would never have been on the table, let alone agreed”.

    This exchange of information about people travelling, abbreviated PNR, is considered essential in the counter terrorist field but, remarkably, does not yet exist in most European countries. Britain has had a PNR database operating since 2012 and has spearheaded the push for the system’s extension across the EU – something that has been given added impetus by the Brussels and Paris attacks.     

    There are many other areas where the UK is a net contributor to European security, in the view of many practitioners (in the military or security sector) I’ve spoken to. Whether it’s a close vote on the extension of economic sanctions against Russia for its actions in Ukraine, or the organisation of an anti-piracy naval force, the UK can make a difference in driving forward the larger group. This chimes in with President Obama’s statement about EU membership , externalmagnifying rather than diminishing British influence.

    Those who would prefer to leave the EU counter that key Nato and intelligence relationships would remain unchanged, arguing also that Britain’s capabilities would continue to give it influence over European security. That’s not a point most of the ‘Remainers’ would seriously dispute. Rather they say that it’s harder to exert security leadership when you’re no longer at the table, and that weaker or less effective security policy making in the EU would ultimately rebound to Britain’s cost.       

  3. Alan Johnson on new EU member statespublished at 22:39 BST 25 April 2016

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    We have a veto... I think the general principle of spreading the European Union is a good principle...

    Alan Johnson, Former Labour Home Secretary

  4. May – the Forces be with EUpublished at 22:35 BST 25 April 2016

    Theresa MayImage source, PA

    The Home Secretary appeared today to find a third way between Brexit and Bremain, when considering the impact of EU membership on national security.

    She stayed nominally loyal to her party leadership, saying that "remaining a member of the European Union means we will be more secure from crime and terrorism".

    But she managed to make some fairly eurosceptic noises by calling for a British exit from the European Convention on Human Rights (which she argues has had a much more detrimental effect on UK security than the EU, by stymieing attempts to deport people like Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada).

    Cynics may suggest that she is attempting to appeal to as many future voters in a Conservative leadership election, external as possible.

  5. And we're offpublished at 22:32

    We have a simple question this evening - is the EU aiding our security? Or not? 

    BBC Newsnight studio
  6. The Experts: Shami Chakrabartipublished at 22:31 BST 25 April 2016

    Why I'm in favour of IN

    Shami Chakrabarti

    "I cannot lie. This isn't easy. I have been a closet Euro-sceptic for most of my adult life. An internationalist to the core, I nonetheless shared the concerns of so many people in Britain and Europe about the apparent lack of accountability of the mighty institutions of the European Union and the smallness we can feel as individuals so far from Westminster, let alone Brussels.

    "Which is why the Newsnight debates have focused my mind and diverted me away from understandable emotions about sovereignty and Europe towards practical debate about whether we might be wealthier, happier, safer and more sustainable in or out.

    "As the former director of Liberty, many of my concerns about the EU came from a civil liberties perspective. Perhaps the EU arrest warrant had made it too easy to waft people around Europe and information sharing has been too easy at a cost to personal privacy. But from a security perspective, I cannot ignore the ultimate benefits of  the closest possible cooperation against truly globalised threats whether against international criminals, tax evaders, hackers, kidnappers or terrorists. Security can obviously be approached from two perspectives: Batten down the hatches or work with your friends. There are arguments either way. 

    "But in the end, globalisation is now a reality and not a choice. What happens "over there" has such an immediate effect on our lives "over here" that the path of easier intelligence, information and strategy sharing is vital. The threats to security, not least cyber-threats, are international. So must be the response. With greater sharing must come greater trusts and safeguards and like the Leader of the Opposition, I want to see a reformed EU that treasures common values as well as shared markets. But in the end I choose to build security with my neighbour's and not to lock my doors and hope for the best."

    Shami Chakrabarti was director of Liberty from 2003-2016

  7. The Experts: Col Richard Kemppublished at 22:29 BST 25 April 2016

    Why I'm in favour of OUT

    Col Richard Kemp

    "Britain’s security would be strengthened if we left the EU. Inside, we can’t really control who enters if they are EU citizens, unless we can demonstrate that they pose an immediate threat to us. That means large numbers of jihadists returning from fighting with the Islamic State can come to Britain and we can do nothing about it. Our intelligence and security services are already stretched thin trying to monitor terrorist suspects from our own country.

    "In too many cases nor can we throw out people who pose a direct threat to us – wherever they’re from in the world - because our ministers and courts can be over-ruled by the European Court of Human Rights. While we remain in the EU we have to submit to the jurisdiction of that court, even though it’s separate to the EU.

    "Despite scaremongering by Remainers, intelligence-sharing and security cooperation would not be weakened if we left the EU. All sharing of significant intelligence is bilateral now and will remain so – it is not coordinated through EU mechanisms. In fact our closest intelligence partner, by far, is not even an EU member – the United States.

    "On all aspects of security we have at least as much to give to our European allies as they can give to us. We have the best intelligence and police services in Europe. Why on earth would European countries try and weaken this cooperation just because we left the EU? If they did, they would be putting their own citizens at unnecessary risk."

    Richard Kemp is a senior miltary officer and former commander of the first Task Force in Helmand

  8. Nearly time...published at 22:22 BST 25 April 2016

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  9. A question of securitypublished at 22:21 BST 25 April 2016

    How important is security for you in deciding how you will vote in the EU referendum?

    Do you have questions on security and the EU that we should put to our guests tonight?

    Let us know by leaving a comment on our Facebook page, external or tweeting us @BBCNewsnight , externalusing #newsnight

    Soliders boots by a Union JackImage source, Getty Images
  10. Safer in or out? A primerpublished at 22:16 BST 25 April 2016

    Mark Urban standing by a fence on the Austrian border
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    People in the defence and security world express opinions about the United Kingdom's possible departure from the European Union that at times seem hard to reconcile...

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    In recent months, the immigration crisis, and the possible use of migrant flows by terrorists to enter Europe illegally, have loomed large in the public imagination and Brexit debate

    Mark Urban, Diplomatic and defence editor

    Would the UK be safer in or out of the EU? 

    Read this primer from Mark Urban here

  11. What we've been reading...published at 22:08 BST 25 April 2016

    A Union Jack with a soldier next to itImage source, Getty Images

    Here are some useful primers from key defence and security players on both sides of the debate:

    "Britain’s military standing would not suffer after Brexit", external - Anand Menon, in the FT, argues that the UK would actually find it easier to work with European allies *outside* the EU.

    "Brexit would be bad for security in Europe warns Nato chief'", external - Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg warns against Brexit.

    "Brexit would not damage UK security", external - Ex-MI6 head Sir Richard Dearlove says that from a national security perspective, "the cost to Britain would be low".

    "Richard Dearlove is very wrong: leaving the EU would weaken British security'", external - Dame Pauline Neville-Jones (former Security Minister and ex-chair of the Joint Intelligence Commitee) fires back at Sir Richard.

  12. What would Putin want?published at 22:03 BST 25 April 2016

    Ian Katz
    Newsnight Editor

    Vladimir PutinImage source, Getty Images

    What would Vladimir Putin want? That's the question many in the Remain campaign would like you to ask as you enter the voting booth on 23 June. 

    They are confident that the answer to the question is "Brexit" and that that should tell us all we need to know about whether leaving the EU would make us more or less safe in the world. 

    The Leave camp would rather you thought about the two men who entered Europe posing as refugees on the Greek island of Leros, crossing several European borders before bringing terror to the streets of Paris in November. Or Salah Abdaslam, who slipped across the border back to Belgium after taking part in the attacks. 

    Their message: with its permeable borders and patchy anti-terror efforts, how can the EU possibly make us safer? 

    We'll doubtless hear variations on both arguments tonight, in the third of our special programmes about the big issues in the EU referendum. We'll also try to get to the bottom of some of the big arguments around European Arrest Warrants, intelligence sharing and whether the EU gets in the way of us kicking dangerous people out of the country. 

    To help us we've assembled a formidable panel of experts - including Europol chief Rob Wainright and former Met anti-terror chief Richard Walton. Sadly Vladimir Putin couldn't make it. 

  13. Are we safer in or out of the EU?published at 20:16 BST 25 April 2016

    A graphic of a man on a tank

    Tonight's topic is security – would the UK be safer in the EU or out?

    In the third of our EU specials, Evan Davis is joined by two key players from either side of the debate, a panel of experts, and a group of undecided voters. 

    Tonight's programme starts at 10.30pm on BBC Two as well as right here at the top of this page. 

    We'll be live blogging from 10pm with extra background, insights and analysis. See you then...  

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    While you're waiting, why not take a look at our recent EU Referendum live blogs...

    Economy: Would we be off in or out of the EU?

    Sovereignty: Who really rules the UK?