Summary

  • Tonight's topic was security – would the UK be safer in or out of the EU?

  • Evan Davis was joined by Alan Johnson and Penny Mordaunt from either side of the debate

  • Find out what our panel experts and our undecided voters had to say

  • Get involved using #Newsnight

  1. Alan Johnson – the EU 'complements' Natopublished at 23:15 BST 25 April 2016

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    Quote Message

    Of course Nato is important, it's one the two big organisations set up after the war, three if you count the United Nations, to stop war happening again, and that's about our defence.

  2. Bogey men and immigration...published at 23:14 BST 25 April 2016

    Here are a few of your thoughts on the security debate... Keep them coming at #newsnight

  3. Evan's phrasebook of EU security key termspublished at 23:11 BST 25 April 2016

    We're just about to ask our guests about all things security, but first here are those key terms that you just heard from Evan:

    • The Schengen Information System – a pan-European database covering anything from missing people to those involved in serious crimes, or who should not be in the EU. There are more than 46 million entries and last year Britain made quarter of a million inquiries on the database.
    • The European Arrest Warrant, introduced in 2004; it expedites extraditions within the EU, and stops countries refusing them.
    • There are other examples of information sharing which Britain stands aside from. The European DNA database holds police DNA, fingerprints and vehicle registrations. 
    • Plans to collect Passenger Name Records or PNRs (the idea is to oblige airlines to hand over passenger data) have been debated since 2011, but has still not been implemented.
  4. Colonel Richard Kemp on an EU armypublished at 23:08 BST 25 April 2016

    Quote Message

    If we left the EU we would undermine the EU's ultimate plan of forming an EU army

    Colonel Richard Kemp, Joint Intelligence Command, 2001-2006

    Colonel Richard Kemp
  5. Tonight's panel of expertspublished at 23:05 BST 25 April 2016

    Rob Wainwright is the Director of Europol, the EU agency where member states' police forces come together to share criminal intelligence and combat international organised crime. A veteran of MI5 and the UK's National Criminal Intelligence Service, Mr Wainwright believes that EU cooperation plays a vital role in keeping Britain safe.

    Richard Walton was the head of the Counter Terrorism Command at New Scotland Yard between 2011 and 2015. He says that Brexit would not affect the UK's ability to protect itself, and that if it left the EU, Britain would still be able to join in with EU programmes that have value.

    Shami Chakrabarti was the Director of the civil liberties pressure group Liberty from 2003 to 2016. She is a recent convert to the Remain side, having campaigned for many years against what she saw as the EU's lack of accountability, but believes the benefits of European cooperation against globalised crime outweigh the costs.

    Col Richard Kemp was the senior military officer attached to the Cabinet Office between 2001 and 2006, with responsibility for counter-terrorism. He also commanded the first Task Force Helmand in Afghanistan in 2003. He argues that Britain's security would be strengthened if it left the EU, because it would have more control over its borders.

  6. Penny Mordaunt on a future outside the EUpublished at 23:05 BST 25 April 2016

    Quote Message

    We are not walking away from Europe... We are very much focused on building capability on Europe

    Penny Mordaunt, Minister of State for the Armed Forces

  7. Penny Mordaunt on Russian aggressionpublished at 23:04 BST 25 April 2016

    Quote Message

    What ultimately will keep us safe from Russian aggression is if we have strong, prosperous member states who can invest in their defence

    Penny Mordaunt MP, Minister of State for the Armed Forces

  8. Penny Mordaunt on Theresa Maypublished at 22:59 BST 25 April 2016

    Quote Message

    Who knows where she will be by the end of the week

    Penny Mordaunt, Minister of State for the Armed Forces

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  9. Tonight’s political guestspublished at 22:57 BST 25 April 2016

    A former Home Secretary and a Minister of State for the Armed Forces

    Alan Johnson:

    • Head of Labour's 'In' campaign
    • Former Home Secretary and Secretary of State for Health
    • Former postman and trade union official  

    First in Evan’s hot seat is Alan Johnson, a former Labour Home Secretary. Johnson is firmly in favour of staying in the European Union, so much so that he is leading the Labour campaign to remain. Johnson has argued that the security of Britain is inextricably linked to staying in the EU. He has said “the lesson from the Paris [attack] is that to tackle terrorism we must stand shoulder to shoulder with our allies in Europe”.

    Alan Johnson
    Image caption,

    Alan Johnson argues the UK would be more secure in the EU

    Penny Mordaunt:

    • Minister of State for the Armed Forces
    • Worked as an aid worker in post-revolutionary Romania
    • Royal Navy reservist at King Alfred on Whale Island

    Up against Mr Johnson is Penny Mordaunt, Minister of State for the Armed Forces. In this role she is responsible for operations, operational policy, force generation and service personnel policy. Mordaunt argues that Britain should leave the EU, and that European free movement rules mean we cannot keep out those we suspect wish us harm. In her article here, external she argues that for the sake of Britain’s future security, it is time to leave.

    Penny Mordaunt
    Image caption,

    Penny Mordaunt argues Britain is safer outside of the EU

  10. France and Nato: A very brief historypublished at 22:55 BST 25 April 2016

    President Charles de GaulleImage source, Getty Images

    In his film, Mark Urban mentioned in passing France's decision to leave Nato in the 1960s. What was all that about?

    Well, the row began in 1959 after Charles de Gaulle reclaimed the French presidency. President De Gaulle was very concerned that Nato was overly-dominated by "les Anglo-Saxons'"(Britain and America). He wanted parity for France within Nato, and for Nato to extend its geographic scope to French overseas territories, including Algeria. The other countries rejected De Gaulle's proposal, so in March 1959, France withdrew its Mediterranean fleet from Nato, and, a few months later, asked the US to remove all of its nuclear weapons from French territory.

    Throughout the 1960s, De Gaulle made friendly overtures to the Soviet Union in an attempt to demonstrate that France was not bound to walk in lockstep with America. And in 1966, France officially withdrew from the NATO Military Command Structure, ordering all foreign military personnel to leave France within a year. France nominally remained a member, but officially played no role in Nato decision-making.

    Behind the scenes, however, US and French officials drew up a number of secret accords, the Lemnitzer-Ailleret Agreements, which laid out how French troops would revert back into Nato's command structure should war break out between East and West.

    Eventually, after the end of the Cold War, and President Nicholas Sarkozy's decision to pivot French foreign policy back towards America, France revisited its policy, and in 2009, France officially rejoined the Nato Military Command Structure.

  11. What would Putin think...?published at 22:53 BST 25 April 2016

    President Putin getting a glass of champagneImage source, Getty Images
    Quote Message

    Would Europe be more tempted to adopt an appeasement policy towards the Moscow without Great Britain? That might very well be the case

    Dominique Moisi, French political scientist

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  12. Austria acts alonepublished at 22:50 BST 25 April 2016

    Mark Urban
    Quote Message

    The action of a country like Austria in driving a coach and horses through the EU's asylum rules and the Schengen agreement have displayed that it can act energetically in its own interest and not even think about leaving the EU

    Mark Urban, Diplomatic Editor

  13. Migrant numbers plummet in Austriapublished at 22:49 BST 25 April 2016

    Quote Message

    We had 800/900 asylum seekers in one day. Now we have around 100

    Reinhold Lopatka, Former Austrian foreign minister

  14. Would a post-Brexit Europe be prone to appeasement?published at 22:47 BST 25 April 2016

    Mark Urban
    Quote Message

    Insiders in the US and France are concerned that if the British voice was no longer at the table, the others would be more likely to shun difficult decisions - to appease in other words

    Mark Urban, Diplomatic Editor

  15. Our undecided voter on what is important to him in the debatepublished at 22:45 BST 25 April 2016

    Quote Message

    How strong are our borders going to continue to be whether we stay or leave?

    Bipin Dattani, Undecided voter

    Bipin Dattani
  16. It's all about Nato...published at 22:44 BST 25 April 2016

    Quote Message

    I'm a Nato man... But the reality is I didn't see that the EU was actually doing its job properly - pulling its weight... The final straw for me was the fact that [Jean-Claude] Juncker decided he wanted a European army and a European navy, when actually what they should be doing is putting all their efforts behind Nato

    Rear Admiral Roger Lane-Nott, Former head of submarine service

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  17. Is Security more important than the Economy?published at 22:44 BST 25 April 2016

    A show of hands from our undecided voters

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  18. Alan Johnson on Turkey joining the EUpublished at 22:43 BST 25 April 2016

    Quote Message

    There's a big human rights issue in Turkey which means they cannot meet article six of the European Union: democracy and free speech.

    Alan Johnson MP, Former Labour Home Secretary

  19. Pandora's boxpublished at 22:43 BST 25 April 2016

    Quote Message

    A British exit to me is opening the lid of Pandora's box. I don't think it's possible to argue that the rest of the union would not be affected by this. They will be

    Gen Sir Mike Jackson, Former head of the Army

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  20. The French establishment viewpublished at 22:42 BST 25 April 2016

    Dominique Moisi
    Quote Message

    A Brexit vote would be a lose-lose proposition. There would be less Great Britain in the world, and - as a result of British departure - there would be less Europe in the world.

    Dominique Moisi, French Institute for International Affairs