Do you think tracks like 'Shameless' and 'The Snake' on Secrets are quite reminiscent of some of your earlier stuff on Dare?

Phil: Possibly, although it wasn't intentional. The instrumental stuff was meant to relate to different times in our careers and the different material we've produced. It's interesting that you mention 'Shameless' though, as that track was completely transformed by Toy. We had a bit of a dopey Euro-disco track, a tiny bit like The Pet Shop Boys' 'It's A Sin'. We had no idea what to do with it, but he just came in, kicked it around until it was one of my favourites really.



People have said that your latest album is probably your finest offering since Dare. Do you ever feel that you will always be expected to emulate Dare's success?


Joanne: I don't think it's like an albatross around our necks or anything, but it is all that people ever want to remember us for. It's as if they don't want us to move on...they want us forever to be that group that sang 'Don't You Want Me' or 'Mirror Man' and they don't want us to change...



When you were recording Dare, were you aware of what a success it would be?


Joanne: No we weren't...we didn't really think about that sort of thing. All I remember is doing it in the middle of the night, being fast asleep and then being woken up to do some vocals.

After 'Sound Of The Crowd' you came out with 'The Lebanon', with the kind of guitar riffs that you might find on an Oasis record...were you trying to shock people by taking this new direction?

Joanne: Well, we had a guitarist in the group at the time and he wrote the backing for 'The Lebanon'. I think it was just felt that at the time we couldn't stop him... But more than that when you have had such big success at first, you do find yourself experimenting with ways to recreate that success. So, you decide to change things in some way...it was probably a huge mistake in our case. People who liked Human League wanted to listen to Human League records and not rock tracks...and those that liked rock weren't going to take it from Human League...the pop band.



If you think that 'Lebanon' might have been a mistake, then how do you feel about its follow up?


Susanne: Well 'Crash' saved our career really...if it hadn't been for Jam and Lewis, we wouldn't still be here. We were in a bit of a state, we'd started recording it with someone else and it wasn't working out, so the managing director of Virgin asked us who we'd like to work with. We were listening to the SOS band and a group called Change at the time, so we hoped to work with them. We approached them and they really liked 'Fascination'...they even wanted to write a few songs for the album. One of those tracks turned out to be 'Human', which was one of our biggest hits.
Phil: I was quite surprised that it was liked as much as it was really, it was quite a smoochie track.



Then your first greatest hits came out. Did you think at that stage, 'well we've made our money now...that's it'?



Joanne: We never have made our money... Susanne: We probably would have done if we'd made our money![Laughs]

Do you ever cringe at what you wore?


Phil: Never...but the girls might disagree with me. You wore what you wanted to then, it was about being bold. Most people now are terrified of standing out. We live in a very modest time now, it's amazing how much things have changed. We have a guy that helps us out from time to time, he's 21 and wears eyeliner...he's totally unusual. Years ago we wouldn't trust anyone that didn't wear eyeliner! And if you didn't, you were a rocker or something was wrong with you. These days you have to look like you haven't made an effort, that's the problem. Everything's extreme as well, it's either a question of having hair a millimetre long or it's right down your back and matted. But it all looks like they've not bothered.



Finally, what have been your proudest moments to date?


Phil: 'Tell Me When' was our best achievement for me...against all the odds
Joanne: Our second No.1 in America with 'Human'.
Susanne: It's got to be my first Top Of The Pops experience...I'll never forget that.