Lockdown: The anniversary no one wanted

TRANSCRIPT: 

NIKKI -

I’m going to go for it. Are you ready?

KEIRA -

Yes.

NIKKI -

Are we all ready, gang?

EMMA -

Yeah.

JONNY -

Yeah.

NIKKI -

All right. Let’s do it, let’s do it.

[Music]

NIKKI -

Well, it’s definitely the anniversary nobody wanted, or even expected. This week marks one year since the United Kingdom officially went into its first COVID-19 lockdown, but some disabled people, particularly those that fell within the high risk category, had already been shielding, or taking extra precautions for weeks. I’m Nikki Fox, the BBC’s disability correspondent, and I spent the last year finding out how disabled people are managing through the pandemic. Taking my own disability into account, muscular dystrophy, and dyslexia, just in case anyone’s interested – it’s not like I don’t bang on about it enough – I can safely say that the last 365 days or more have not been easy for anyone. So I thought I’d sit down, grab an espresso con panna, because I am that person, and have the mother of all debriefs with three people from across the disability community. So let’s meet them. First up, Jonny Benjamin, MBE is here. Hello Jonny, how are you?

JONNY -

All right. Yeah, yeah, I’m good. Thanks for having me on.

NIKKI -

Now, Jonny is an author, blogger and mental health campaigner, best known for Find Mike, which was a social media campaign, searching for the stranger who talked him out of taking his own life. Now, Jonny does lots of work to raise awareness of suicide and mental health difficulties, something we know many have struggled with during lockdown, so I am sure he’ll have plenty to say about how the year has been. Emma Tracey is here.

EMMA -

Hello.

NIKKI -

Ola, Emma. How are you?

EMMA -

I’m all right thank you. Good.

NIKKI -

You see, now Emma’s normally in my ear when we do these things. You’re normally doing producer.

EMMA -

Yeah.

NIKKI -

It’s her job on the Ouch podcasts, but this time she’s chatting about what lockdown’s been like for blind and visually impaired people like herself. So this is kind of new for us, Emma.

EMMA -

Yeah, we’re on the other sides of the fence today. And, you know, I’m a little bit uncomfortable, I want to talk, I want to say the intros and the outros and things, but actually it’s really nice to sit back and hear you do it and hear Keiligh producing as well. And I’ve been living my own blind-y lockdown, but also talking to lots and lots and lots of people about theirs as well, so it’s something I can certainly talk about. 

NIKKI -

Perfect. We’ve also got writer and campaigner, Keira Lawrence. Hello, Keira. How are you?

KEIRA -

Hello, Nikki. I’m very well. How are you?

NIKKI -

I’m very excited about this because we follow each other on Twitter don’t we?

KEIRA -

We do.

NIKKI -

And, you know, I sort of speak to you a lot and it’s lovely to finally actually get to interview you. I’m really excited about this. Now, Keira works as a campaign support officer for Mencap and has been advocating for people like her who have learning disabilities for many, many years now. Thank you all so much for joining me. So what about you guys? You haven’t been shielding but I’m guessing lockdown has thrown up some interesting disability related stuff for you? Shall we start with Jonny?

JONNY -

Gosh, where to start really, where to start.

NIKKI -

I know.

JONNY -

It’s been just a rollercoaster. I think that’s the right word for me and for many others, is just a rollercoaster in terms of mental health. I know so many people that have had really, really, kind of really low points, and then, you know, maybe better points, but lots of low points, lots of anxiety. For me, I know lots of people that perhaps haven’t struggled so much before with their mental health, this year have said that they’ve really struggled. And yeah, it’s really tough, people just don’t know how to cope. For me, I started off, the first lockdown I was doing okay, and then I had a breakdown in the summer in the break between the lockdowns and I ended up in hospital last September, which was really tough because of all the restrictions. And especially being in a psychiatric hospital and having all these restrictions. I couldn’t leave my room for days in case I had COVID. They had to test me.

And that was really hard being confined to this small room when, you know, your mental state is already… I was in a bad place and I found the hospital really challenging, and then my sort of recovery since has been… I mean, I’m in a better place now, but yeah, it’s been tough. I need people around me when I’m not in a good place. I need people to support me, I need connection, but I didn’t get any of that obviously in the hospital, or even out of the hospital.

NIKKI -

God, that must have been really difficult for you. It’s a double whammy almost isn’t it, being in hospital during that time. Do you feel that you ended up in hospital because it was all compounded by the situation that we’re in now?

JONNY -

Yeah. No, definitely. I mean, to be honest my diagnosis is schizoaffective disorder, a lucky combination of schizophrenia and bipolar, and I really noticed the paranoia really taking over during lockdown as we went on and on. And I’d get so, so paranoid about germs. You know, I’d always disinfect, like, the disinfectant. Yeah, I think I lost it a bit, especially actually when we came out of the first lockdown and we started to see people I was even more paranoid about the germs because I was starting to go out and I was like, what if other people haven’t washed their hands and I’m touching something? And it kind of took over my life actually. Yeah, it really did. And then obviously I became unwell. But, you know, I took a step back from everything and I took a few months off and that definitely helped. A few months away from media, social media, I think that really actually helped.

NIKKI -

Keira, as well for you, I know a lot of people with learning disabilities have been struggling throughout the pandemic. I mean, we’ve covered a lot of stories that have impacted people with learning disabilities. How has this whole year been for you?

KEIRA -

It’s been up and down. It was strange actually, because on 16th March I went into work in London to the Mencap office and everything was fine. Normal day, everything was going clockwork, and I was, like, oh it’s going to be a great day, everybody’s here, blah, blah, blah. And, like, happy as Larry, and then literally an hour later I was told to go home because somebody in my team was at home with the possible symptoms of COVID. So I was sent home out of safety. So then two weeks passed and I was like, okay, maybe I have to stay home a bit longer, that’s fine. And then I got furloughed right at the beginning of April until the second week of June, and then I was invited back to Mencap for a special secondment job and my job from June to January this year was working on making all the COVID guidance, government speak, into Easy Read to get it out on our website, our social media, all our comms. So that was very challenging but I really enjoyed it and I worked with lots of fab talented people in Mencap to do that. And then in January this year I got an internal promotion job, so I’m actually now their plan engagement lead in the transformation team at Mencap. So, yeah.

NIKKI -

Oh, Keira. Amazing. Do you think in some ways though the whole year has been slightly easier for you because you’ve been so busy?

KEIRA -

For me, I think at the beginning when I was working I was happy because I was doing something I loved and I was doing something that I cared about, but the first day of being furloughed I literally sat on my sofa in my PJs while watching my husband go off to work, because he works in a Royal Mail depot, I literally cried. I think I spent the first week just going, what do I do now? I don’t know what I’m meant to do. I don’t have anything to do. I can’t have anybody round to comfort me. It was really hard. When something that you love is taken away from you it was really, really hard. And I remember just one day going on Instagram and I did the live thing on Instagram, and I just sat on Instagram crying to my friends, going, “Please someone, just talk to me. I’m on my own. I feel so isolated.”

And, like, so many people responded and were so lovely, and so then I kind of pulled myself together and I was like, right, I need to do something practical now, I need to kind of cut myself off from this, and so I did some volunteer work for some of the other charities that I have roles with outside Mencap. And actually, once I had that and I had things to do it got easier, but I think for the 1.5 million who live in the UK with a learning disability not everybody is as lucky as I am. I have a voice and I can use my voice, but some people don’t have a voice and it’s been really hard. People have been at home, not being able to go out, not being able to understand the guidance, it has been a really hard year for people with a learning disability. So I’m looking forward to being able to see the day when we can all go out and we can all celebrate and be together. That’s going to be amazing.

NIKKI -

Ah, and we can dance and we can chink glasses and we can give kisses... [Laughs] Right, I just went off on one. I got lost then. I was in a club in Ibiza somewhere. Emma, obviously I know you professionally, I love and admire you very much, but on a personal note how has this whole period been for you?

EMMA -

I think in a lot of ways it hasn’t been a huge amount different for me than for someone who isn’t disabled. I mean, the first lockdown, myself and my husband were working full time and we had two small children at home because one was not in nursery yet and one, the nursery was closed. And I think it was just, it was really, really intense, and actually with Ouch we’d just started Cabin Fever which is our strand of podcasts where we talk about COVID-19 and the lockdown and how it affects disabled people so, you know, we were really pushing to get as much sort of disability stories out there, as many people’s voices heard. So it was busy at work and busy at home.

And then I guess, as with everybody, things changed over time and the kids went back to school and then they came back home again. And something I’m really looking forward to is a bit of time by myself, because it’s not… I heard someone say the other day that there are two different types of people in lockdown. There’s the people who are really genuinely and understandably lonely because they’re living by themselves or with one other person who goes out to work, as Keira is, and then there are the people who’ve got a house full and nobody can go anywhere and nobody can leave.

So I have to say, one of the things that’s been interesting for me is that there hasn’t been as much of that drip, drip, drip disability discrimination as before lockdown. So, you know, not as much chipping away that, you know, when you meet someone on a train station or you meet someone in a cab and they’re asking what’s wrong with you and they’re being unintentionally, usually, discriminatory or just not thinking and saying things that kind of chip away at you all the time. So I was out with my husband for a run and he was guiding me the other day and someone shouted out to him, “Oh, I respect you, sir!” And I’m still thinking about that a week later because it probably would have happened to me four or five times a day before when I was out and about and doing things, but this happened a week ago and I’m still thinking about it, you know.

NIKKI -

How’s it been as well with, like…? Obviously you’ve not been going out and about. Well, none of us have been going out and about as much, and obviously when you’ve got sight loss or you’re visually impaired does it make you almost…? Do you get a bit nervous. Do you get anxiety at the thought of actually coming out of lockdown and actually getting out and about more?

EMMA -

Yeah, I do. So not just because of the chip, chip away, but also because of just mobility. You know, I actually was matched with a guide dog and trained with them for seven weeks and then it didn’t work out because the dog had been in lockdown from once before it came to me so it had kind of got used to being a pet [Laughs] and not going any work. And most of the training that we would usually do we couldn’t do, so we couldn’t go into shops and we couldn’t go on buses and that kind of thing. And it was really stressful, so that kind of knocked me back a little bit, and my old guide dog died as well, so that was difficult.

But also, you know, I have to touch everything all the time and I have to get guided. If I do take public transport or a taxi I need to be guided by somebody I don’t know and I don’t know where they’ve been. So I have lost a lot of confidence and I do tend to let other people take the kids to school or to the child minder. And I’m not proud of that but I’m hoping that when things open up that I’ll sort of… I’ve never been brilliant with getting around by myself, but I’ve got high hopes for when the kind of new normal arrives, if it ever does, for getting some of my confidence back in that regard. And you have so many strategies as a blind or visually impaired person, or as someone with any impairment, you’ve got so many strategies that means that people don’t actually realise that you’ve got a strategy. And people don’t realise that you’re getting around something in some way.

And one of the big things that I did in the house was the online shopping and that was one of the big contributions I made, and then all the slots were gone. And I did something that I’ve not had to do before, I rang the supermarket and I put myself on a vulnerable list, so now I get the vulnerable slots, so I get a slot a week to get my shopping. And, you know, it’s not something I’ve ever had to do before, it’s not something I’ve ever thought about before, but it was weird, like, sitting on hold and then the person coming on and having to say, “Well, I’m blind and I can’t do the shopping myself,” and tell this random person in a call centre my life story. And I’ve got two small children and they’ve got allergies and I need to know the ingredients and I need to be able to read them on the website. So yeah, it was a bit of a… It felt difficult but I think I would do it again and I probably feel a bit more comfortable about putting myself on such lists now because I’ve done it once and it's helped me a lot.

NIKKI -

It’s kind of a means to an end isn’t it really?

EMMA -

Yeah.

NIKKI -

Yeah. I just wondered what you all thought, because obviously shielding’s coming to an end now on 1st April, but there was some research by Scope which showed that 75% of disabled people do plan to continue shielding after the second vaccine dose, which, you know, means many months more of isolation. I mean, Jonny, coming to you. I suppose you weren’t shielding, shielding, I imagine, in the period that’s just been, were you?

JONNY -

No, I wasn’t. But interestingly, I’ve spoken to lots of people about the transition out of lockdown and there’s so many different views. And actually there’s quite a few people I’ve spoken to who feel very anxious about coming out of lockdown, that transition. And I’ve spoken to other people and they’re not so empathetic, and I’m just like, be kind. As we always keep saying, be kind, you know. If someone doesn’t feel ready or comfortable, I think I’m concerned that people are going to put too much expectation on other people. You know, “You should be out now. Come on, come out,” you know. Or if you don’t feel ready or safe yet to come out, to transition out that’s absolutely fine, we need to be respectful of that.

NIKKI -

And it varies very much like it does with all kinds of disabilities and all kinds of mental health issues doesn’t it?

EMMA -

Or to go into a workplace as well, you know, to be back in the office. Some people have found that not being in the office has been a massive benefit, but also they’re worried that they’ll be called back in when they don’t feel safe yet.

NIKKI -

Yeah. And I guess when the shielding ends, when official shielding ends, that kind of protection goes doesn’t it? So, Keira, I was interested as well about how you feel about the whole shielding coming to an end on 1st.

KEIRA -

It is really important that people with a learning disability can get the support they need to come out of lockdown safely. And obviously, I wasn’t shielding, but I have been at home since 16th March every day since. The only times I’ve literally been out are the supermarket with my husband, food shopping, having a socially distanced walk with my mum, apart from that I’ve literally lived within these four walls of my flat. And I feel like I’ve shielded. Even though I haven’t officially shielded I feel like I’ve been shielding. [Laughs]

NIKKI -

Yeah.

KEIRA -

And actually it was really lovely because last week I actually saw a friend of mine out for a socially distanced tea and cake outing, and I hadn’t seen him for a whole year and it was so nice. And I was like, this feels like a new normal, it feels nice.

NIKKI -

Let’s move on quickly to chat about the V word. I’m talking, people, vulnerable. We’ve got a clip from Ouch’s Cabin Fever podcast which has been brilliant, with the gang talking about the initial way people were told they were vulnerable.

[Clip] So the text that I know my friend who has a condition got, ‘NHS coronavirus service. We have identified that you’re someone at risk of severe illness if you catch Coronavirus so you need to remain at home for the minimum of 12 weeks. Home is the safest place for you. Staying in helps you stay well and will help the NHS too. You can open a window but do not leave your home and stay three steps away from others indoors. Wash your hands more often for at least 20 seconds. Read more advice here’.

‘Open your window’. I think the advice is confusing as well because I thought that if you walked for half an hour somewhere where there were absolutely no people then that would be okay, but that text sounds like that’s not the case.

NIKKI -

Blimey.

EMMA -

Gosh.

NIKKI -

Yeah, I know. The whole kind of extremely clinically vulnerable, you know, the list, the whole kind of name, it’s a mouthful, it was always going to get shortened to vulnerable unfortunately. It’s a shame it wasn’t just shortened to extremely. Ha, ha. [Laughter] But it turned out to be such a controversial time, and I know for me in the job that I do I always keep a check on language and the way that we use it and I always think, particularly for people with learning disabilities as well, Keira, correct me if I’m wrong but, you know, we need to use an empowering language, we don’t need terms like vulnerable.

And it’s funny how it very quickly, you know, it was a shorthand for anybody with a disability and I was noticing it more and more and I became very grumpy and started sending off emails to people I didn’t even know about it. I am completely aware that not everybody is familiar with disability or has anybody in their life that’s disabled so might not get it but, you know, it’s like, come on now people, like, just because someone’s disabled does not mean that they’re vulnerable. But it was amazing how many times I had to say that. [Laughter] But, Keira, from the learning disability aspect language is so important isn’t it? I mean, don’t get me started on the amount of times I have to pull people up when they say learning difficulties.

KEIRA -

Yeah. So learning difficulty and learning disability are two very different things. So learning disability is lifelong, there’s no cure, you have it your whole life. You can’t take medicine, that’s not going to happen, you have it your whole life. So it’s the way you learn, understand and communicate, and it’s about, actually, if you have the right support around you, you can achieve, and we can all achieve with the right support in our lives, and I think everybody has a certain type of disability in their life, everybody finds things hard, but when you have a learning disability it’s understanding information, it’s communicating, it’s finding new things hard. And during lockdown I certainly found all the guidance really hard to understand myself. I had to explain it to my friends which was an enormous challenge, but I ended up doing it. And for people with a learning disability the government were very, very slow to put accessible information out right at the start of the lockdown. They left it to charities like Mencap to do it.

And even at Downing Street briefings, I can’t count on my hands the number of times I watched those and I was literally tweeting, “You are talking jargon. You are using big words. I ain’t understanding you. Nobody’s understanding you.” And I wrote to Boris Johnson and I said, “Look, please, please, please can you make them accessible, because you are cutting out a whole community of people,” and they just said, “Charities should do it. Charities should be making them.” And then I got invited to talk at a parliamentary meeting about it and then I was invited on to a group in parliament online to talk about it and I raised my voice.

And I think they have really tried now. They are starting to do it, they are trying, but it’s a bit too late, they should have done it from the beginning. And no wonder people with a learning disability didn’t understand about social distancing, like, even my mum, when I was out with her having a walk one day she had to remind me because once I got quite close to somebody and my mum was like, “Just move out the way,” and I was like, “Oh, okay.” And I think had I had really accessible guidance and rules given to me from the start by the government I could understand them much better but we didn’t have that.

NIKKI -

And I’m just wondering, Jonny, from your perspective?

JONNY

Again, I feel like Keira, the government has started to talk more about mental health but it’s come too late. You know, at the very beginning they should have realised that mental health needed to be a priority, or mental health support needed to be a priority. I mean, if you look at the stats now, so for example, CAMHS, the Child & Adolescent Mental Health Service, are now seeing the highest level of referrals on record. So many people are needing mental health support. It’s always the same, it’s so reactive, you know, why can’t we be more preventative? I know a lot of people that were really struggling with, you know, again, things like the news, having to watch the news and the briefings and the type of language that was being used.

NIKKI -

And talking… I mean, I suppose moving on to lockdown and loneliness really, I mean, we know that 57% of disabled people who live alone haven’t seen anyone outside their support bubble since the pandemic began, 20% haven’t seen their support bubble, I mean it’s difficult isn’t it?

JONNY -

Loneliness. Yeah, that’s so tough. And actually, we’re seeing younger and younger people struggling with loneliness, particularly, you know, I have a youth mental health charity called Beyond, and we were hearing from so many, particularly actually really young children or rather, we were hearing from parents actually about their four year olds, their five year olds, six year olds, really struggling with that loneliness, because they were away from school, they were away from their teachers, away from their friends. You know, we were hearing from parents that were having to juggle, you know, Emma, you talked about it, you know, having to juggle home schooling with working themselves and trying to look after their children. We know that children and young people, you know, their brains are developing and they need social interaction, or a lot of them need social interaction, they need to be outside in nature, having play, being creative, and that was all stopped when children were having to stay home. And the loneliness became a real issue. I mean, we’ve seen a massive rise in texts to Shout which is the kind of text service that a lot of young people use, a massive increase in texts, particularly focused on loneliness actually.

NIKKI -

Really?

JONNY -

Yeah. So many people, so many young people, and actually what worries me is, again, the lasting impact from that. So I’ve been speaking to some schools that are saying a number of pupils haven’t returned to class, they’ve lost so much confidence and so much kind of self-esteem that they haven’t actually returned to school.

NIKKI -

Now, I was going to just move away slightly. What we’re looking into at the moment, it’s very distressing for many families, but we’ve heard a fair bit now about do not resuscitate orders. So as I’ve learnt a lot, DNA, CPRs, do not attempt CPR, and it’s best to use the official term, but we know that they’ve been inappropriately placed on disabled people during the pandemic. Let’s hear another clip from Cabin Fever. Here’s Baroness Jane Campbell talking about this issue.

[Clip] Within this pandemic there have been some very worrying issues emerging. One of those was the do not resuscitate conversations that GPs were having with disabled people. Whether we should or shouldn’t go on ventilators. Should we stay at home and not go to hospital because there were fitter, more able people to help first. And it was all about survival of the fittest. And some of us got together and we wrote an open letter saying, “Hey, hey, hey, stop all this, you can’t do this, this is discriminatory,” and actually, you know, to give them their due, the NHS responded within a week, basically mirroring what we said in the letter and it was sent out to all NHS trusts.

NIKKI -

I mean, Baroness Jane Campbell’s been phenomenal throughout this pandemic. I know because I’ve spoken to her a lot, and I know how much work she’s been doing and we’ve spoken about this very issue. We have got something more concrete now because the Care Quality Commission released their report last week and whilst it wasn’t, I think, as thorough as many people had hoped for, they did find that more than 500 cases where do not attempt cardiopulmonary resuscitation decisions had been made, CPR decisions had been made, without the family or the person being informed of it. So, you know, it’s awful really. I mean, particularly for people with learning disabilities. Keira, if I could bring you in here, because I know that I have spoken to a lot of people who are concerned because they support somebody with a learning disability and they’re concerned that if they go into hospital they’re not generally going to get the overall healthcare and the treatment that they need and deserve. What’s your take on it?

KEIRA -

Well, before the pandemic people were dying needlessly in hospital because they weren’t getting the right proper care they deserved. During the pandemic people have struggled to get the healthcare they need and they’ve struggled to get support and reasonable adjustments. I don’t think I can comment on DNRs, but I definitely think that healthcare professionals need to have the right training in order to support people with a learning disability, and we’ve done that through our Treat Me Well campaign at Mencap that we ran over the last three years, making sure medical staff had resources and training and tools and tips. So yeah, I think, you know, it’s a very difficult situation, and the only way things can get better is if people have the right support and reasonable adjustments, and under the Equality Act they have a right to those. So as long as those are used then people shouldn’t have to go through that kind of situation.

NIKKI -

Yeah.

EMMA -

I think it’s just that the death rate and the illness rate amongst disabled people in this pandemic’s just been so high and so scary that I think we’re all absolutely, I’m going to say, I don’t know, freaked out by it. I’m shivering listening to you and to Baroness Jane Campbell and to Keira and knowing that the stats are so, so high. I think that’s the really sad thing isn’t it?

NIKKI -

Shall we move on to a few positives? There were some positives. I know personally pre COVID I’d spend about nine hours a week driving up and down the M6 to Manchester and back, working very intensely and being absolutely pooped at the weekend. And actually, since I’ve been working more from home, I obviously have gone out and done some filming for news and ‘Watchdog’, but I’ve been working in the majority from home. The balance I feel is a lot better, I’m a bit stronger because I’m actually managing to do a few exercises, you know, so my life has definitely improved in that area. Of course I’m going to be going back to the office a bit more, but any positives? Let’s start with you, Jonny.

JONNY

Sure. So actually during this time I’ve been putting this book together, which is called ‘The Book of Hope’, because I think we could all really do with some hope and inspiration, and basically it’s 101 different contributions from people from all sorts of backgrounds, walks of life, all who have overcome struggles and challenges and it’s how they found hope again. And it’s really helped me, the book. Actually putting the book together during lockdown has helped me. Because I get my sort of strength from other people, from learning what other people have been through, what’s helped them.

So we’re putting the book out in April and yeah, I just really hope that people can benefit from it. I guess, I feel very grateful, very grateful for technology. I mean, the fact that we’re all sitting here right now having this discussion, I mean that’s pretty amazing. And people also giving their time. So we actually did, my charity did a mental health festival for schools during the pandemic. Everyone was being home schooled and we wanted to put stuff out there for young people, for teachers, for parents, and we had 400 volunteers, which is amazing.

NIKKI -

Wow.

JONNY -

All different, you know, mindfulness teachers and yoga teachers.

NIKKI -

Love it.

JONNY -

Yeah, it was fantastic. Different charities like Anna Freud Centre and Place To Be, they all got involved and they volunteered. As a charity, again we’ve lost money, I mean that’s a whole other thing, you know, charities obviously losing all their fundraising, so we didn’t have any money but we had all these volunteers that gave up their time for the sake of, you know, people’s mental health. And it was just incredible to see so many people come together and yeah, offer their time. I think that’s been amazing, seeing actually yeah. No, I do feel much more positive. I think, yeah, there’s been so much kind of goodwill out there from the public.

NIKKI -

I love that.

JONNY -

And I just hope that continues. I hope we don’t lose that sort of spirit.

NIKKI -

Hey, Jonny, talking about volunteers, do you want a 41 year old that knows a few chords on a ukulele? [Laughter]

JONNY -

Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

EMMA -

She’s about to break out the Scooter song now aren’t you, Nikki?

NIKKI -

Oh, you know it, Emma? I’m so obvious. Have you heard it? She knows it. Any positives for you, Emma?

EMMA -

I was desperately trying to think of something very interesting to say while Jonny was talking there. I think for me being blind with small children, getting them out to classes and going to playgroups and just getting them to parties. I mean, they’re all great things for them to do, but I find it really hard, and I find it really, really stressful, and my house is, like, I know where everything is and I can do lots of things with them, and we’re very, very lucky to have a garden. So I think my home is my castle and I’m happy there, and I feel like, I mean, I can’t wait to go to London and I can’t wait to go for dinner and I can’t wait to do all these things, but I suppose if there was a positive it would be, A, that I’ve been able to spend lots of time doing things with my kids that I don’t have to worry about anyone else’s judgement or I don’t have to get anywhere or I don’t have to find my way around a big loud noisy hall full of toys. I don’t know how they feel about that, but… [Laughs] And I suppose the working from home as well, you know, they were positives but I wouldn’t like that to last forever. Yeah, there have been positives but I’m looking forward to all the things that I’ve just said that I find stressful as well.

NIKKI -

And what about you, Keira? Have you learnt anything as well, Keira, about yourself in this period?

KEIRA -

Definitely, definitely. I think right at the beginning I felt very isolated, even though I live with my husband, but he was out working, he was a key worker and he still is, because he works for Royal Mail, but I was on my own during the day a lot and I felt very isolated, I felt cut off, especially when I was furloughed. Like, that was really hard. I took it really personally. I was like, but you can’t furlough me, like, I love Mencap, I love my career, like, what are you doing to me? And I felt everything I’d ever known was just gone and I was like, it was so hard. But I think technology has really helped, so I have literally been doing Zoom quizzes, Zoom baking, Zoom everything. All my family are on Zoom, we do Zoom calls with my friends, Zoom calls with my family, and that’s been so nice. I’ve needed that. I’ve needed that for my mental health, I’ve needed that for my own sanity.

But one thing I can say is I feel like I’m definitely going to come out of this whole pandemic stronger as a person than I was at the beginning. I feel like now if I was thrown into another situation, God help not, but if we are, I know that I’ve got the coping skills. I know that I’ve got tips on how to react to it. I’ve got resources now that I can go to. I know where I can go for help and I know who I can talk to and I trust. I won’t cry so much which will be lovely, because I think I’ve spent the whole pandemic in tears, so it’ll be nice to be happy for a period. So yeah, like, it’s going to be really great to see my friends. Like, the first night out, like pub night, can’t wait, like, I’m literally going to be running to the pub door. So yeah, I’ve learnt a lot about myself and so yeah, I think I’m definitely going to come out of it feeling like I can take on the world one day at a time, but I’ll be mentally stronger, yeah.

NIKKI -

Oh, Keira!

KEIRA -

And I’ve got my new podcast.

NIKKI -

Yeah, your  new podcast. And I’m going to go on it aren’t I?

KEIRA -

Yeah!

NIKKI -

You’ve totally pumped me up there, because I feel like I’m going to come out of this bloated with massive roots. Like, my adult acne, it’s reappearing. I mean, honestly, I’m frazzled. I think this podcast could actually be a six parter, there’s so much. But I thought we’d be done within an hour. My PA’s been here for half an hour and we’re still going on. Thank you so much for joining me and being so open and so honest, and it was great as well, Jonny, just to get the perspective from you, it’s really interesting and I’m so glad that I now know you, and don’t be nervous, but I will stalk you on the internet. [Laughter]

EMMA -

And I’m so glad you’re doing a bit better as well. It sounded really scary.

NIKKI -

Yeah, I’m so glad.

KEIRA -

Yeah.

JONNY -

Yeah, I just think, you know, I know a lot of people are struggling with their mental health right now and know there is support out there as well. I think that’s really key, there is support, there is help. There’s a great organisation called Hub of Hope, and basically type in your postcode then it brings up all your local mental health support groups, charities, organisations, so please see what’s out there, because there is help and support. You don’t have to do it alone.

NIKKI -

That is a brilliant link. That’s a brilliant link. Hub of Hope. Here at Ouch we’re always interested in hearing your opinions and experiences, so remember, you can find us at BBC Ouch on Facebook or you can search @bbcouch on Twitter. And I’ve been well impressed, like in awe actually, as the Ouch team have been working so hard throughout the year to bring you so many podcasts that have reflected the many stages and the struggles of the pandemic. And, you know, creating Cabin Fever, it’s just brilliant. Brilliant, brilliant. So thank you for listening and here’s to a future 12 months there’ll be a lot less drama. And banana bread. Oh no, thank you so much guys.

KEIRA -

Thank you.

EMMA -

Thank you.

JONNY -

Thank you.

[Music]